8:18 AM [Enorrste] Who said so?
8:18 AM [SBX] Enorrste that last question is the best
8:18 AM [Enorrste] Anyone?
8:18 AM [SBX] they dont HAVE to RV...I dont care what anyone says
8:19 AM [Enorrste] And then I bring the documents to prove the case, one by one.
8:19 AM [SBX] they can stall like they are do their thing....no thn cant join WTO....etc..etc
8:19 AM [SBX] but then CAN stay where they are
8:19 AM [SBX] they are not poor....only the people are poor
8:19 AM [Enorrste] So I will do this question tonight/this morning
8:19 AM [Enorrste] It takes me a moment to set up since I will be copying and pasting, OK?
8:20 AM [SBX] if you want a homework assignment then go to school
8:20 AM [Enorrste] no, finance minister, but you will wish that there was one available! .
8:21 AM [Enorrste] I love to see people come to chat with new real research
8:21 AM [Enorrste] How about I start out and give you a taste now?
8:21 AM [Enorrste] OK, bear with me
8:21 AM [tbush] Enorrste go
8:22 AM [Enorrste] I have decided to indulge myself to try to present a unified statement the current situation and where the pieces are starting to fit together.
It is now evident to me that the RV is part of a large political process for the people in control in Iraq. At the same time it is also a part of a very important process in the goings on within the UN. And, finally, I have come to believe that it is going to turn out to be a seminal portion of the US government strategy, inherited from the Bush administration but delightfully now obtained by the Obama administration.
It is now evident to me that the RV is part of a large political process for the people in control in Iraq. At the same time it is also a part of a very important process in the goings on within the UN. And, finally, I have come to believe that it is going to turn out to be a seminal portion of the US government strategy, inherited from the Bush administration but delightfully now obtained by the Obama administration.
:22 AM [Enorrste] The RV event, as I will call it, has had a number of pieces to it that have come to light in the recent past. We can easily recall them: Chapter VII, GCC membership, IMF goals, US Govt involvement due to the war, China as a quickly rising world power; the upcoming Iraqi elections; the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM); the new IMF loan.
8:23 AM [Enorrste] Now all of us are familiar with these concepts and have heard innumerable explanations as to how they fit into the big RV picture. And with the same familiarity we have seen these scenarios fall by the wayside, one by one. The reason is simple in hindsight: most of these scenarios don’t have enough fact in them to support themselves; so they collapse under their own weight.
8:23 AM [SBX] Theres no new IMF loan
8:23 AM [SBX] maybe we should stop until we can find REAL info that they TOOK the loan
8:23 AM [Enorrste] I wrote this book before that news came out, SBX
8:23 AM [SBX] I see
8:24 AM [Enorrste] What I want to accomplish for us all in this post is to build the grounded base that we have all chatted about on a very solid footing so that we won’t have to cover the same ground again. But more than that I want us all on the same page so that as new information that is backed by a document becomes available we can place it onto our foundation of truth and be able to be confident in it. This would place us uniquely above the blogs and position us to possibly actually know what is going on, if not what is going to go on.
8:24 AM [SBX] just trying to keep everyone up to speed here...not jumping you
8:24 AM [Enorrste] So the goal here is to begin by building blocks of truth, a foundation of knowledge that is irrefutable on which we can add layers as events continue.
8:25 AM [Enorrste] So let’s begin to build our foundation of knowledge. What do we really know?
8:25 AM [Enorrste] Fortunately we know that the Iraqi government and the UN have stated that there is a clear intention to revalue the dinar in the foreseeable future.
8:25 AM [Enorrste] We know this from two documents from legitimate sources. This is our starting point.
8:26 AM [Enorrste] The first document comes from the United Nations itself. I intend this to be the “ground level,” so to speak, and a reference document that will be the “source” document for what we know to be the case.
8:26 AM [Enorrste] Here is the link: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/20 ... ab3917.doc.htm This link is the actual UN document that says that the UN intends to increase the value of the dinar.
8:26 AM [Enorrste] I'd like you all to copy and paste this link and put it in your "favorites"
8:27 AM [Enorrste] And look at it; I'm going to refill my glass
8:28 AM [Enorrste] What does this mean? Here it is: the UN is trying to more equitably assess dues to its members. It wants to base those dues on the most recent gross national income available and use market exchange rates wherever possible. In the case of Iraq, however, a decision was added to “adjust the market exchange rate for Iraq” in order to get their dues level commensurate with their income.
8:29 AM [Enorrste] Now this is the significant point: the UN is clearly deciding in this document that the dinar has to be revalued in order for Iraq to pay its fair share of UN dues. I see no other explanation possible for this statement on Iraq.
8:29 AM [Enorrste] We now can establish that the UN is “on board” with the revaluation of the dinar. Admittedly it is for reasons of its own; yet the fact remains that it has “decided”, in its own words, to do it. This is key, since when this was written last summer the UN was in control of Iraq. What is said then will indeed happen. After all the UN still controls Iraq.
8:29 AM [Enorrste] Fortunately we also have internal Iraqi documentation that backs up this statement from none other than Nuri al Maliki himself, the head of the government of Iraq.
8:30 AM [Enorrste] The link is as follows: http://www.dinarrumor.com/showthread.php?t=10647 (This is copied from the actual resolution into DinarRumor)
8:31 AM [Enorrste] This document refers to a UN document (which I've seen) that is a resolution of the UN extending Ch 7 until the end of this year.
8:31 AM [Enorrste] At the end of this document is a letter from Maliki to the UN. (I'm not copying this, just letting you know)
8:31 AM [frontrow] allIneedisonemillionusd Kind of like US stocks. A company makes an announcement for a new product (apple) and stocks go up.
8:31 AM [jeff stevens] enorrste what does that mean to us?
8:31 AM [Enorrste] The key statement from Maliki is here, dated 13 December 2009, only 30 days ago : During the remainder of 2009 and in 2010, we will take action to recover the international financial standing of Iraq while at the same time managing oil and gas revenues in order to benefit the people of Iraq.
8:32 AM [Enorrste] Recovering the international financial standing can mean nothing other than revaluing the currency to its former level prior to the Hussein regime.
8:32 AM [SBX] allIneedisonemillionusd yeah 30-40 days ago
8:32 AM [DaveP] Let Enorste speak ..he is sharing some good history...enjoy
8:32 AM [SBX] but remember we are un-imformed here
8:32 AM [Enorrste] We are now in a position to state without hesitation that the RV will occur and that it is in the interest of the UN and Iraq that it occur. In addition, since the UN document refers to dues coming up in 2010 we know that the RV will occur before the dues are paid. And finally we know from Maliki himself that his intention is for this to happen either at the end of 2009 or in 2010.
8:32 AM [financeminister]
8:33 AM [Enorrste] The fact that Maliki mentioned 2009 or 2010 only 17 days before the end of the year is a clear indication that the RV is imminent. If it were not he would have said “in 2010” instead of what he said.
8:33 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] when are the first round of dues, due to be paid?
8:33 AM [Enorrste] We are firmly planted now on solid ground. From clear documentation from the international organization as well as the in-country head we know that the RV will occur in 2010 and most like early in this year.
8:33 AM [Enorrste] But more than that, Maliki was prepared to do the RV as early as the end of 2009, so we can say with confidence that the RV is “at the door”.
8:34 AM [Enorrste] Having established, therefore, that it is the intention to RV the dinar and that it is the intention of the head of Iraq to do so in the very near future we need to see how he might accomplish this from documents, to ensure that his statement to the UN comes to pass.
8:35 AM [Enorrste] We can do this quite simply and without having to resort to loans from the IMF or expiration dates of a programmed rate or even loan payment deadlines. All we have to do is look at the documents and figure out what they mean and how they apply.
8:35 AM [Enorrste] Now, I could go to the next section but I think you are getting my drift
8:36 AM [Enorrste] right?
8:36 AM [jzar] Enorrste do you have this kind of information that leads you to an estimated rate?
8:36 AM [SBX] Enorrste I hate to back up a second...but this shows the dues payments correct http://www.imf.org/external/np/fin/t ... &extend=y#Desc
8:36 AM [Enorrste] So from here on it gets complicated
8:36 AM [DaveP] Hel....go on Enorste..it's Sat morn...what else do we have to do
8:41 AM [Enorrste] Ok I have a problem with my 'puter; even though I'm on line it thinks I'm off line; I will save and figure it out later.
8:41 AM [Enorrste] So can someone tell me these two things: when is the payment due and how much is it?
8:41 AM [SBX] allIneedisonemillionusd Special Drawing Rights
8:42 AM [Enorrste] let's hold SDRs for later, OK
8:42 AM [SBX] Enorrste first one is may for 84,743
8:42 AM [kedwa420] Assessments_SDR May 01, 2010 84,743 Total for the year 2010 84,743
8:42 AM [SBX] Enorrste ytou can hold if you want
8:42 AM [SBX] the payment is die in may
8:42 AM [SBX] due
8:42 AM [SBX] and due every may for the next 15 years
8:42 AM [Enorrste] One more question
8:42 AM [frontrow] Did they have payment required last May?
8:42 AM [SBX] frontrow this I dont know
8:42 AM [frontrow] If so, did they pay?
8:42 AM [Enorrste] What, specifically, is the payment for?
8:42 AM [Enorrste] What, specifically, is the payment for?
8:43 AM [Enorrste] What loan?
8:43 AM [Enorrste] from the IMF?
8:43 AM [SBX] I dunno
8:43 AM [SBX] I dont think theres a new loan
8:43 AM [DINARMONSTER] 5,5 billion loan
8:43 AM [Enorrste] well, we need to know that
8:43 AM [SBX] its weird
8:43 AM [SBX] I cant believe that with your research you have never seen the link
8:43 AM [Enorrste] no DM, they didn't take that loan (I knew they wouldn't)
8:43 AM [SBX] WERD
8:44 AM [SBX] yeah I spelt that wrong
8:44 AM [SBX] on purpose
8:44 AM [frontrow] I wonder if IMF could let them defer payment for a year or 'x' amount of time...let's hope they say put Iraq in a full nelson and say pay up
8:44 AM [Enorrste] I'll tell you why I haven't found this SBX
8:44 AM [Enorrste] I detemined some time ago that loans to the IMF do not affect the RV one iota; so I don't follow them
8:44 AM [SBX] allIneedisonemillionusd SDR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special ... Drawing_Rights
8:46 AM [tbush] EddieX welcome back
8:46 AM [SBX] they owe something
8:46 AM [SBX] I will tell you that much
8:45 AM [SBX] Enorrste its not a loan payment
8:45 AM [Enorrste] The fact is that if you go to the IMF site and then to "country" and then to Iraq
8:45 AM [Enorrste] you will see that Iraq does not owe the IMF one dime
8:45 AM [SBX] bullcrap
8:45 AM [SBX] this is on the IMF site
8:45 AM [frontrow] Enorrste what is it then?
8:45 AM [SBX] can you click this link
8:45 AM [SBX] http://www.imf.org/external/np/fin/t ... key=2009-12-31
8:45 AM [kdsyaya] Enorrste dfe posted about this days ago, it's in the forum.
8:45 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] do they just take it from the DFI without it ever becoming an outstanding debt?
8:45 AM [EddieX] Oh boy...
8:46 AM [tbush] uh oh
8:46 AM [kerrybas77] EddieX - hey
8:46 AM [SBX] and then click projected payments over on the left
8:46 AM [Enorrste] I don't think so SBX
8:46 AM [EddieX] tbush Thanks but...
8:47 AM [mtaajj] kerrybas77 whats up bro?
8:47 AM [kerrybas77] Enorrste - bullcrap to quote a famous mod (cudn't resist SBX)
8:47 AM [SBX] if you could click the links you would see
8:47 AM [tbush] <<<<<
8:50 AM [Enorrste] for some reason the links don't go through; I told you that I am online but the computer is so stupid it thinks I'm not online
8:51 AM [SBX] ok...well...thats fine
8:51 AM [Enorrste] OK. let me just disconnect and reconnect; that will fix it.
8:51 AM [Enorrste] I will be back
9:03 AM [Enorrste] Well I am back
9:03 AM [mikey] EddieX ummmmmmmmmm ok her goes
9:03 AM [jzar] SBX I see it back to Jan of 2008
9:03 AM [Enorrste] You will not believe this
9:03 AM [SBX] jzar what did you change in the url
9:03 AM [Enorrste] I rebooted and started over completely
9:03 AM [jzar] 2009 to 2006
9:03 AM [Enorrste] and went on the net
9:03 AM [jzar] SBX after you were at the IMF
9:04 AM [Enorrste] and every link works, except imf.org
9:05 AM [Enorrste] I'll verify and eat crow later, OK?
9:05 AM [SBX] no need to eat crow
9:05 AM [SBX] its dues
9:05 AM [SBX] that iraq is paying to the IMF
9:05 AM [babysnake] Doughboi it doesn't matter if the banks are open, they gotta be a member of the world trade before they can RV
9:06 AM [Enorrste] That's more like it; Iraq doesn't owe the IMF a dime, as I said
9:06 AM [SBX] Enorrste well...yes and no
9:06 AM [SBX] they dont owe for a loan
9:06 AM [Enorrste] ok, go on
9:06 AM [SBX] tey do owe dues
9:06 AM [cantwait500] yes it would be the first day of the work week
9:06 AM [Doughboi] babysnake thanks
9:06 AM [Enorrste] yes, just like they owe the UN dues
9:06 AM [SBX] you cant stay in certain neighborhoods without payintthe fees
9:06 AM [Enorrste] OK, OK, OK
9:06 AM [babysnake] Doughboi yw
9:06 AM [SBX] you cant stay in the un..imf..etc
9:06 AM [SBX] without paying the fees
9:07 AM [DaveP] Would someone with creds address babysnakes statement that they can't RV without becoming a member of WTO
9:07 AM [Doughboi] Who all here is willing to trust there Bank
9:07 AM [tadams] what happened to "he has to rv before the election" consensus?
9:07 AM [Enorrste] But I'm talking about a loan like the 7 trillion dinar loan; didn't happen and they don't owe a dime of any loan of that sort
9:07 AM [SBX] DaveP I dont know...I think they can RV without becoming part of the WTO...but they cant join th WTO without RVing
9:07 AM [Soldier] DaveP Well that would mean it would be another year for that to happen
9:07 AM [SBX] Enorrste we know it did not happen
9:07 AM [SBX] we have a BIG thread here in the forum about this
9:08 AM [jzar] SBX I sent the link in a PM
9:08 AM [Enorrste] so we are back on the same page?
9:08 AM [DaveP] Thank you SBX....would have said the same thing myself...but wtf
9:08 AM [EddieX] ...
9:08 AM [chas32] I htink the dues on the imf website are according to "present" exchange rates - Iraq's dues are 84,743 per year. US dues are 2,637,972 per year.
9:08 AM [SBX] Enorrste heres a good link http://www.aknews.com/en/aknews/2/105374/
9:08 AM [babysnake] SBX so either way we can't cash in until they join -the wto is that right?
9:09 AM [SBX] babysnake I dont agree with that.....but cant say for sure
9:09 AM [DaveP] forgive me...should not have used abbreviation....I'm sorry
9:09 AM [babysnake] SBX oh i was just asking
9:09 AM [Enorrste] go figure; that link worked!
9:09 AM [Enorrste] I've seen that link before; that's where they "shine on" the IMF on the 7 trillion
9:10 AM [Enorrste] Does anyone want to get "complicated" now?
9:10 AM [Enorrste] I can talk about WTO, but not yet
9:10 AM [Enorrste] remember, building blocks, right?
9:10 AM [babysnake] Enorrste why not
9:11 AM [Enorrste] later
9:11 AM [Enorrste] baby, were you here when I started this?
9:11 AM [babysnake] Enorrste no
9:11 AM [Enorrste] OK, I said I would present facts on a building block format
9:11 AM [Enorrste] one step at a time
9:12 AM [chas32] Enorrste do you mind me asking - are you on some sort of position to know certain things...or are you just like us - researching?
9:12 AM [Enorrste] starting with the 2 docs I've already shown you
9:12 AM [SBX] chas32 researching
9:12 AM [chas32] Okay...thank you SBX
9:12 AM [Enorrste] that show clearly that the UN and Maliki have put in writing that they intend to RV
9:12 AM [Enorrste] I research, chas
9:13 AM [SBX] I want to say that I appriciate the info...research that Enorrste is bringing...all in one place at one time...but I dont appriciate the "dumbing down" that is coming with it
9:13 AM [Enorrste] Now to my knowledge, simple as it is to find those two docs, no one has done it, yet
9:13 AM [SBX] no need to assume that we all need to start with 2+2 here
9:13 AM [Enorrste] I am not trying to dumb down anyone, SBX
9:13 AM [SBX] carry on....I have things to do.....
9:13 AM [Nance] SBX some of us need parts dumbed down...
9:13 AM [Enorrste] but I do believe that what I brought is new to you all
9:13 AM [Enorrste] am I wrong?
9:14 AM [Nance] no
9:14 AM [babysnake] Enorrste nope
9:14 AM [DaveP] SBX...so true for you and hopefully me...but man...you have seen some of the stuff here....? Hel....you have to dumb it down....
9:14 AM [Enorrste] Has ANYONE told you how we know that an RV is "in the cards"
9:14 AM [SBX] did you not see alli need and I just talking about your maliki document saying this is 30-40 day old news
9:14 AM [SBX] ?
9:14 AM [SBX] we have seen these docs...
9:14 AM [SBX] as I said I appriciate you sharing it all at one time in one place
9:14 AM [EddieX] People have been usign this info before but people aren't paying attention.
9:14 AM [SBX] no doubt..your doing a great job with your research
9:14 AM [SBX] and putting it all together
9:15 AM [Enorrste] but did anyone see the letter from Maliki and see that he was committing to the RV in it?
9:15 AM [DaveP] We love you E.....! Go.....!
9:15 AM [SBX] Enorrste I am pretty sure its in our forum
9:15 AM [SBX] but again...
9:15 AM [SBX] only some see it
9:15 AM [Enorrste] I have no desire to banter in any form whatsoever
9:15 AM [babysnake] Enorrste , i have monies here from other 3rd world countries , banks would not trade,,,why you ask> because they were not on the WTO
9:15 AM [SBX] your saying it all in one place at one time
9:15 AM [SBX] so carry on
9:15 AM [SBX] I am out anyhow
9:15 AM [Soldier] Enorrste So what did M say about the RV
9:16 AM [babysnake] Enorrste ty for info
9:16 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] i hope someone will post this entire chat
9:16 AM [Enorrste] Ah, this is so difficult with so many people.
9:16 AM [Soldier] Did he say anything about a Date before the election
9:16 AM [sxottj] Enorrste I read the letter, but I do not recall all the info in it.
9:16 AM [Nance] what helps me is the way it is being presented - I read everything in the forums but have trouble putting it together in a way that makes sense...
9:16 AM [Enorrste] Soldier, did you just arrive?
9:16 AM [Soldier] been here from the start
9:16 AM [prosperinit] just sit back and listen to Enorrste. He has his stuff together. been chatting with him a while now. He goes in steps so all can see. No better info on the net just listen. And it don't matter to me I can chat with him on other site
9:16 AM [DaveP] Enorrste...I don't banter either...but it's refreshing to have documented consolidation of past recent developments...please continue
9:16 AM [Enorrste] then why would you ask that question?
9:17 AM [govets] Gm, can we all refrain from typing until Enorrste is finished typing? thanks.
9:17 AM [Enorrste] the second document is a letter from Maliki to the UN in which he states his intention to RV the dinar in 2009 or 2010
9:17 AM [sue4toos] please continue Enorrste
9:17 AM [Enorrste] right?
9:17 AM [Soldier] Enorrste Yes I saw that
9:17 AM [Enorrste] Ok,
9:18 AM [Soldier] But did he saying recent is what im asking
9:18 AM [Enorrste] Now it gets complicated from here on, trust me
9:18 AM [puffsplus] I have copied from the start, will edit and post....so please let him continue.
9:18 AM [Soldier] np
9:18 AM [sxottj] puffsplus thanks, quiet for now from me.
9:18 AM [Enorrste] YES, he wrote the letter on Dec 13 and said, "in 2009 or 2010". which means he had only 17 days left in 2009
9:18 AM [Enorrste] RIGHT?
9:18 AM [Doughboi] Right
9:18 AM [Soldier] right
9:19 AM [Doughboi] Right
9:19 AM [Soldier] right
9:19 AM [Enorrste] he said in 2009 or 2010, which means he thought it might happen in the next 13 DAYS, right?
9:19 AM [Doughboi] Right
9:19 AM [serpico007] yes
9:19 AM [Soldier] NO
9:19 AM [Enorrste] So it is "imminent", period
9:20 AM [serpico007] yes
9:20 AM [Enorrste] why no?
9:20 AM [Soldier] Well alot of stuff has happen since then
9:20 AM [Soldier] No WTO member
9:20 AM [Jospar05] Question... If this RV's over the weekend, would we know the day of or would it be the following Monday(business day)?
:20 AM [Enorrste] but he wrote it to the UN; was he lying?
9:20 AM [Soldier] Bombings
9:20 AM [Enorrste] Don't bring in the WTO yet, please?
9:20 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] why can't the imf take iqd for the assessment payment
9:20 AM [Soldier] Possible Coups
9:20 AM [Soldier] Corrupt Govern.
9:20 AM [DaveP] Enorrste....some are hung up on not being a WT
9:20 AM [serpico007] Soldier you need to stop talking and listen
9:21 AM [sxottj] Enorrste just go on, we understand you. and those that say no, may have a better understanding when you are done.
9:21 AM [Soldier] Elections getting closer
9:21 AM [DaveP] O member ....tell whats needed
9:21 AM [Enorrste] Hang on
9:21 AM [Soldier] He asked me why
9:21 AM [serpico007] Soldier just stop talking
9:21 AM [Enorrste] In my opinion the next "player" in the rumor mill will be the WTO, or World Trade Organization. So, in an attempt to head off the next rumor I thought it would be nice to post the following for link:
9:21 AM [Enorrste] http://en.aswataliraq.info/?p=122744 And here is the relevant quote:
9:22 AM [Enorrste] Iraq seeks full WTO membership during conf. Monday Iraq seeks full WTO membership during conf. Monday
9:22 AM [Jospar05] Outstanding answer... you all are incredible.
9:22 AM [Enorrste] November 29, 2009 - 04:14:39 BAGHDAD / Aswat al-Iraq: Iraq will attend the World Trade Organization (WTO) ministerial conference to be held in Geneva on Monday within third-round negotiations to be granted full membership in the world body, according to an Iraqi Trade Ministry media source on Sunday.
9:22 AM [harrynutz] thats an old article though
9:22 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] old
9:22 AM [Enorrste] “A delegation from the higher national committee led by Acting Trade Minister Safaa al-Din al-Safi will be attending the three-day WTO ministerial conference. The delegation will discuss ways to have Iraq obtain full-fledged membership instead of its current observer status,” Faraj al-Jaafari told Aswat al-Iraq news agency."
9:22 AM [Enorrste] Now, that seems positive, doesn't it? And of course the rumor is this: "Iraq must have a recognized currency in order to become a full fledged member in the WTO." But is Iraq a member, yet?
9:22 AM [Enorrste] Here is the link: http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp ... c=Worldupdates
9:22 AM [harrynutz] it was stated recently that Iraq will not be in the WTO for awhile
9:22 AM [Enorrste] And here is the relevant quote from November 23, 2009: Iraq could join WTO by end of 2011- U.S. official
9:23 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] link broke
9:23 AM [Soldier] harrynutz at least another year is what it said
9:23 AM [Enorrste] BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq could get membership in the World Trade Organization by end-2011 if it actively pursues accession, which could help the country's rebuilding efforts by boosting trade and investment, a U.S. official said. OK, let's put this rumor to bed before it shows up next week!
9:23 AM [beau777] The last link is no good
9:23 AM [Enorrste] Enough on that?
9:24 AM [Enorrste] Now, complicated, right?
9:24 AM [SBX] why is it complicated
9:24 AM [Enorrste] I thought you left
9:24 AM [kkjk] How about the MOP article discussing feasability studies at $1.13?
9:24 AM [Soldier] Its not complicated
9:24 AM [DaveP] no
9:24 AM [Nance] we're going there now
9:24 AM [babysnake] just means we gotta wait another year
9:24 AM [THJ] Enorrste So the RV Sunday is well within the realm of possibility based on fact not rumor?
9:24 AM [Enorrste] I have a suggestion:
9:25 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] trying to bridge these unbridgable thoughts is
9:25 AM [bonecollector] ignorance is complicated....... exp.... maliki, shabibi
9:25 AM [DaveP] Get a recognizied currency ...join WTO....babysnake...did you see that?
9:25 AM [Enorrste] if you do not find the next section complicated you let me know
9:25 AM [Soldier] THJ depends on whose facts your looking at
9:25 AM [EddieX] SBX, you guys can check IPs right? Something seems VERY familiar here.
9:25 AM [Enorrste] I've never been here before, Eddie
9:25 AM [bonecollector] Enorrste continue
9:25 AM [babysnake] DaveP i saw 2011 before getting on the wto
9:25 AM [bonecollector] please
9:26 AM [THJ] kkjk In that same article it was stated that the GOI considered the value of NOD/IQD was 3.2.
9:26 AM [Enorrste] Ok
9:26 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] Enorrste you sound exactly like . . . . . .???????
9:26 AM [DaveP] I can't stand it anymore....thanks Enorrste...and good luck....time for breakfast
9:26 AM [kkjk] THJ, that is an article you cannot debunk, no date though
9:26 AM [Soldier] <-excatly what I said 9:26 AM [bonecollector] just let him finish... if u dont like it dont read it 9:26 AM [Enorrste] Here it comes; please just allow me to present the case; then tell me if it is complicated or not, OK? 9:26 AM [harrynutz] Enorrste the information you are presenting is great. Most is older news that many of our members have found via research themselves. But you are putting it all together. Very good, and easy to understand. Please dont come here thinking that the members are of a lower level intellegice than what you are used to dealing with though. We have some very bright very informed people, I dont mean infogurus, I mean people thta know how to research and undersstand the news. 9:26 AM [dirtman_00] sounds like Frank/ 9:26 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] I like it continue please 9:27 AM [THJ] kkjk 6 October 2009 9:27 AM [harrynutz] thanks ghost... 9:27 AM [kkjk] is that when it originated or was posted? 9:27 AM [harrynutz] ALL old news 9:27 AM [Enorrste] As I said earlier, harry, I have no desire to "lord it over" anyone. 9:27 AM [Jospar05] This comes from a guy named Harrynutz... Amazing 9:27 AM [EddieX] Wow...things have changed in a week. That's funny. 9:27 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] harrynutz nice name 9:27 AM [Enorrste] I just happen to believe that in all of this "mess" I have figured it out 9:28 AM [harrynutz] what did I say? 9:28 AM [Enorrste] I don't need to do this. I am happy at my other site 9:28 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] Enorrste continue, start with the date and rate 9:28 AM [THJ] kkjk Date on the document. 9:28 AM [indigo] can't you just listen? he has done awesome research and puts it in terms that anyone can understand if they want to 9:28 AM [Nance] Enorrste continue 9:28 AM [cantwait500] Enorrste thats why u have my undivided attention... 9:28 AM [Enorrste] I was invited here by Adam and agreed to come on and see if I could add something to the group 9:28 AM [Jospar05] You expect to be taken serious with a name like harrynutz?? 9:28 AM [Soldier] Enorrste so if it doesn't happen in the near future. What are you doing to say about it then 9:28 AM [kkjk] THJ tnx 9:28 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] just continue already 9:28 AM [kimmy] Enorrste plz don't let some ruin this for others who appreciate the info 9:28 AM [sue4toos] That bold print came from the mod not harry! 9:28 AM [harrynutz] well, is it not all old news? 9:28 AM [papakic] harrynutz Yes Very Smart peeps like you with a name like you have 9:28 AM [Kevin H.] Enorrste please do 9:29 AM [Enorrste] I will say it hasn't happened yet, Soldier; what else could I say? 9:29 AM [Soldier] If all points refer to the near future lets just say the 7th. Than what? 9:29 AM [harrynutz] PEOPLE 9:29 AM [govets] Ghost mod, is there anyway to stop the typing so, we can get the info from Enorrste? thx. 9:29 AM [RVnow] we need some smart talk in here lets have it... 9:29 AM [pleasantvalleySunday] wow why is everyone treating this newcomer (here at Adams invite) so rudely this am?? 9:29 AM [harrynutz] i did not say any of that Enorrste your welcome here. but did you read my post above? 9:29 AM [digitaldean] why don't you quit interfering and let him finish... 9:29 AM [harrynutz] it is ghost...no tme 9:29 AM [kimmy] pleasantvalleySunday thank you 9:29 AM [harrynutz] lmao 9:29 AM [pleasantvalleySunday] ghost ...it's you're 9:29 AM [RVnow] kimmy helllo 9:29 AM [Enorrste] Yes, I thought that was from Harry 9:29 AM [babysnake] shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh y'all 9:29 AM [harrynutz] no 9:29 AM [sue4toos] 9:29 AM [papakic] harrynutz you have the nerve 9:30 AM [Soldier] Enorrste I dont mean to interrupt. If your not finished I will hold my questions to the end 9:30 AM [harrynutz] Enorrste i never said that 9:30 AM [azareus] kimmy where is terry 9:30 AM [Enorrste] sorry harry 9:30 AM [harrynutz] np 9:30 AM [kimmy] azareus idk 9:30 AM [RVnow] hellloooooo 9:30 AM [kullen1] I for one appreciate all info, please continue Enorrste!! 9:30 AM [Enorrste] I haven't started yet,, soldier 9:30 AM [RVnow] helllloooo RVNOW is here 9:30 AM [Soldier] okay sorry 30 AM [Nance] Stop Typing !!!!!!!!!!!! 9:30 AM [pleasantvalleySunday] everyone SHUT the heck up for a while! 9:30 AM [Jospar05] Can Anyone answer my question... if you dont know.. just say so 9:30 AM [RVnow] wow 9:30 AM [RVnow] sorry i won't say hello 9:30 AM [Traconesu02] Enorrste I would like to hear this complicated part 9:31 AM [Enorrste] This is why I was reluctant to do this; the sun is coming up and EVERYONE wants to chat 9:31 AM [govets] Jospar05 please hold your questions for after this info from enorrste..thanks. 9:31 AM [Enorrste] I have no problem with that, but it isn't easy to present a "case" in this environment 9:31 AM [Traconesu02] Enorrste That is for sure 9:31 AM [indigo] enorrste go ahead--many people want to know 9:31 AM [Jospar05] Well is he going to give the info or dance around it for another hour? 9:31 AM [Enorrste] The forum I belong to has a total of about 335 members 9:31 AM [DaveP] Mods...how about helping here..and moderate this room Let Enorrste talk if he wants to share. No need for everyone to keep asking him to please share
9:31 AM [Enorrste] only 35 or so in chat at once
9:31 AM [Bamadreamer] please let Enorrste continue
9:32 AM [Enorrste] and we respect each other greatly
Please stop talking if hes going to continue
9:32 AM [jeff stevens] Please stop typing
9:32 AM [puffsplus] ok guys....you asked for this to be copied and posted later, I've kept up until now....please keep comments to minimum or it can't be done! thanks or I can not capture it up to you.
9:32 AM [Enorrste] and don't interrupt, except when it is for clarification
9:32 AM [Enorrste] and certainly not to change the subject at hand
Enorrste either share, or move on please
9:32 AM [Enorrste] in fact, we have a "topic" and all are expected to stay on topic
seems we are starting to talk negative about the forum here based on its size
9:33 AM [Enorrste] thanks ghost, I do appreciate it
9:33 AM [DaveP] Geez ghost..now you're interrupting
9:33 AM [chris0985] So whats new this morning?
9:33 AM [Enorrste] So we now move to the next link'
:34 AM [mac lightning] PING.............................................. ..............................................
9:34 AM [mac lightning] mornin all
9:34 AM [Enorrste] It is fairly long and has to be brought over in pieces
9:34 AM [Enorrste] Conscious / MP Sabah al-Saadi: In the Absence of Approving the Budget, the Government Would Resort to Exchange Rate Mechanism in the Next Week Conscious / Baghdad / p. X 5/1/2010 6:50 pm The Attorney-Sabah al-Saadi on the mass of virtue that not approving the budget means to give the opportunity for the Government to find the exchange rate mechanism, especially in the twelfth of this month for the maintenance work of the ministries and government institutions.
9:34 AM [Enorrste] Saadi said in a telephone conversation with (the Iraqi Media News Agency / conscious) that "the linkage between the law of the Federal budget for 2010 and the Electoral Code of Conduct is not just for the fact that the financial budget Aims to support the wheel of the state of Iraq in building, construction, investment, either the Electoral Code of Conduct which regulates the work of actors in the political, governmental mechanisms for the disbursement of state funds in order not to allow them to exploit the money for their campaigns. "
9:35 AM [rbhrt] Enor!! Gm!!
9:35 AM [mtaajj] its it going
9:35 AM [Enorrste] He added that "the Iraqi parliament work of great importance, namely the ratification of the federal budget for the continuity of work in government ministries, as we reflect on the end of the legislative term of life of the parliament completed the budget law and to ratify it." As well as "completion of the electoral code of conduct because this law will determine the exchange rate mechanism, political entities so that there is not financial corruption by the state to finance election campaigns and also to stop Power of some parties at the expense of some of the entities participating in the upcoming parliamentary elections "
9:36 AM [Enorrste] I'm back. Here is the important phrase: as "completion of the electoral code of conduct because this law will determine the exchange rate mechanism
9:36 AM [Enorrste] now finishing the quote
9:36 AM [Enorrste] Adding "in the absence of ratification of the budget during these days Vstljo government to exchange rate mechanism, legal The effect on 12 /1 1-12 With a view to continuing the performance of ministries and government institutions and service productivity. "
9:37 AM [Enorrste] OK, we need to analyze this quote and pay particular attention to the part I "pulled out"
9:38 AM [babysnake] sounds like rv after election to me
9:38 AM [Enorrste] We now know what it means. I will explain why I believe I am right.
9:38 AM [Enorrste] The second piece of he puzzle is now before us. We know that the RV will take place, and soon, from the first two documents. This document adds information that at first appears to muddy the waters but will be shown to actually clarify the issue for us.
9:38 AM [Enorrste] The statement is simple: passing of the ECC will “determine” the ERM. As I stated in my post this makes no sense whatsoever in English. But if we understand that it is a translation from Arabic to English we can obtain the meaning.
9:38 AM [Enorrste] The statement is simple: passing of the ECC will “determine” the ERM. As I stated in my post this makes no sense whatsoever in English. But if we understand that it is a translation from Arabic to English we can obtain the meaning.
9:38 AM [Enorrste] does everyone know what ECC and ERM mean?
9:39 AM [Nance] yes
9:39 AM [sxottj] yes
9:39 AM [Enorrste] Anyone NO?
9:39 AM [Enorrste] oki
9:39 AM [chris0985] I know what ERM is but not ECC
9:39 AM [THJ] Enorrste Define!
9:39 AM [powerfulp] no
9:39 AM [pleasantvalleySunday] think pretty much everyone is up to snuff on terms
9:39 AM [crndog10] code of conduct?
9:39 AM [Enorrste] OK,
9:39 AM [govets] Enorrste yes.
9:39 AM [Enorrste] the ECC is the Electoral Code of Conduct
9:39 AM [Enorrste] a law that needs to be passed by the Iraqi parliament to ensure fair elections
9:40 AM [Enorrste] The ERM is the Exchange Rate Mechanism
9:40 AM [Sunglass] Hi Enorrste. Long time since I got to be in a chat room with you. GM!!!
9:40 AM [Jospar05] Give us the importance of understanding this has been translated from arabic to english please.
9:40 AM [Enorrste] which has to do with regulating fluctuations between currencies of different countries
9:40 AM [Enorrste] I will, Jospar, hang on
9:41 AM [Enorrste] The ERM was used prior to bringing the EU to Europe
9:41 AM [powerfulp] got it...
9:41 AM [Enorrste] to ensure that individual countries didn't go "crazy" prior to the creation of the EU
9:41 AM [Enorrste] Euro
9:42 AM [Enorrste] It has also been used recently during the reval of the Venezuelan currency
9:42 AM [Enorrste] and Bulgaria has asked that it be imposed in an effort to enter the Euro
9:42 AM [wayneabwa] sunglass do we still have to pm ourselves so it won't kick us off?
9:42 AM [Enorrste] and even China has used the ERM
9:42 AM [Sunglass] no wayne, you are ok
9:42 AM [Enorrste] back to the analysis, OK?
9:43 AM [Enorrste] The word “determine” has many meanings in English. The most used is to “make happen”. For this reason it doesn’t make sense that the ECC would “make happen” the ERM. They aren’t really related to each other. The first deals with election fraud and the second with currency fluctuations.
9:43 AM [Enorrste] However if we use a less known meaning of the word “determine” in this document it all becomes more clear. That meaning is to “render” or “allow to occur”. It softens the determinative nature of the word that first comes to mind.
9:44 AM [Enorrste] This is what occurred to me this evening and when it did it all made sense. The ECC and the ERM are not directly related, obviously. They refer to two different functions completely. But if the creation of one leads to the enactment of the other then we have not only a relationship but we can also say that the first “determined” the second. Or, to soften it, the first “rendered or allowed” the second to occur.
9:44 AM [Enorrste] Let’s put this into simple English. What the document states is this: “Unless and until the ECC is passed the ERM can’t come into play.” In other words the passage of the ECC is necessary (determines) for the ERM to take affect.
9:44 AM [crndog10] makes sense
9:45 AM [Enorrste] Let’s summarize where we are, at ground level. We now know from documentation that the RV will take place, that it will take place soon, and that the passage of the Electoral Code of Conduct is necessary to be in place prior to the Exchange Rate Mechanism becoming affective.
9:45 AM [Enorrste] The passage of the ECC is a necessary precursor (determines) as to whether the ERM will come into play. While it doesn’t literally give birth to the ERM, the ERM will not be in play without it.
9:45 AM [Enorrste] Events are enfolding quickly since both the ECC and the ERM are already in place!
9:46 AM [Enorrste] Among the many news links that show the ECC passed is this one: http://www.paltelegraph.com/world/mi ... -electoral-law
9:46 AM [Enorrste] The law was passed on December 7, 2009, less than 35 days ago, and even then only with the concerted 11th hour phone call from President Obama. This is from the news directly.
9:47 AM [Enorrste] Interjection; I wrote this some time ago and the 35 days is now 46
9:47 AM [Enorrste] We now move into the realm of logic and reasoning The logic and reasoning will be based upon sound documentation.
9:47 AM [Jospar05] Enorrste> isnt the ERM set at 1.13?
9:47 AM [Enorrste] no, Jospar, I do not believe it is
9:47 AM [Enorrste] We have Maliki deeply involved in this, clearly. He has stated his intentions to the UN that he intends to RV the dinar and bring Iraq into the “international financial community” from our second document. He clearly has the backing of the UN from the first document.
9:48 AM [Enorrste] So what is relevant? Only two things are relevant. They are the ECC and the ERM. Let’s figure out why.
9:48 AM [Enorrste] We now know that the relationship between the ECC and the ERM is that the first must precede the second. Yet the word “determines” hangs in the balance between them for an additional reason which we now need to explore.
9:48 AM [Enorrste] The ECC, the Electoral Code of Conduct, is a law that lays out for the Iraqi people what can and cannot occur prior to this important election. It is a standard, if you will, placed right before the election to allow for a clean and fair fight.
9:49 AM [Enorrste] President Obama would use the word “transparency” to describe the purpose of this law.
9:49 AM [Enorrste] Wait, President Obama was the arbiter at the 11th hour to ensure that this law was passed. Is the “transparency” president injecting himself into this? No doubt about it, folks.
9:49 AM [Enorrste] It is logical and reasonable that the Iraqi people would want a transparent election. But the need for a special “transparency” law just prior to the election seems a bit contrived, don’t you think?
9:50 AM [Enorrste] I mean aren’t there already election laws? Iraq didn’t form out of a bubble. They’ve actually had a couple elections already, and successfully. So what’s the big deal? And why is Obama involved?
9:50 AM [Enorrste] Yet the law passes and no one is the wiser. We now have “transparency” in Iraq just prior to the election, thanks to President Obama and Mr. Maliki.
9:50 AM [Enorrste] However, it apparently occurred to Mr. Maliki that this was not enough to ensure his election without question. And at this point we aren’t even sure he has a very good chance to be elected, but he seems to have a plan, and the plan involves the ECC. The plan allows him to have “transparency” through the passage of this law. He’s clean!
9:51 AM [Enorrste] But it isn’t enough. He needs more protection, even more transparency. He decides that he has to do just one more thing to guarantee this transparency. He passes the authority for revaluing the IQD directly to Shabbibi, the head of the CBI.
9:51 AM [Enorrste] Now this is interesting. That would be like Obama giving Bernanke the authority to revalue the dollar. Is that logical, or reasonable? I don’t think so. I’m sure Timothy Geitner wouldn’t think so either.
9:52 AM [Enorrste] When in the history of the world has a government given such great authority to a non-governmental entity?
9:52 AM [Enorrste] Oops. You got it. We did. Remember? 1933. Creation of the Federal Reserve?
9:52 AM [Enorrste] Now you will say, “Steve, you are getting into conspiracy theory now!”
9:52 AM [Enorrste] And I answer this question with a question: What is a conspiracy?
9:53 AM [Enorrste] A conspiracy is when a group of men (the big boys) get together and make a decision that affects the little guys, good or bad.
9:53 AM [Enorrste] So yes, I’m into conspiracy theory now.
9:53 AM [Enorrste] I submit that Maliki is following the direction that the US followed to the letter, and that in giving Shabbibi the keys to the RV he was doing exactly what Roosevelt did when he created the Federal Reserve. Of course in the case of Iraq the CBI came first, but without the keys what does it mean? Not much.
9:54 AM [Enorrste] Now, we have reasoned that Maliki has transferred the keys to Shabbibi in order to add to the “transparency” that will lead to his election. He has created a Code of Conduct law to present himself as above reproach. He has also given the authority to revalue the currency to the head of the CBI. He is clean!
9:54 AM [steven] how does that help maliki
9:54 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] he is still top dog when this goes down
9:54 AM [Enorrste] I think I just said how
9:54 AM [Jospar05] Seems like it would benefit Maliki more to RV himself.
9:54 AM [sammiePJ] i agree
9:55 AM [Enorrste] getting there jospar, patience, please
9:55 AM [Jospar05] k
9:55 AM [Enorrste] But wait, he still needs to get re-elected. And his prospects aren’t great given the current state of the economy and the depressed conditions of the people.
9:55 AM [babysnake] maliki has thr authority to do thid before he is elected?
9:55 AM [Enorrste] yes, baby
9:55 AM [Enorrste] He must have a solution. And he does have one. The solution is the RV itself.
9:56 AM [Enorrste] Based on this logic and reasoning we now can understand why he stated on December 13 of last year that he intended to RV the currency (“bring Iraq into the international financial community”) either late in 2009 or in 2010. We can also now see that it must occur before the election for it to have any affect on his election.
9:56 AM [Enorrste] So, whether there is a condition in the ECC to prohibit certain financial acts of corruption 30 days before the election or not we need not worry ourselves, yet.
9:56 AM [Enorrste] The only thing we need to ask ourselves is this: when does he have to do it, and what are the implications if he waits?
9:56 AM [sammiePJ] you just answered my quesion about the time frame
9:57 AM [Enorrste] This brings us to this simple conclusion. The RV is the key to Maliki’s re-election effort. It has always been the key. It was designed to be the key, probably in concert with the Obama administration and possibly with the connivance of the UN and IMF, who see their own goals also being met through the RV.
9:57 AM [sammiePJ] well he is runniing out of time to do all this
9:57 AM [Enorrste] Hillary Clinton came so close to letting the cat out of the bag this week when she gave a speech to potential investors in Iraq at Washington DC. She said the opportunity was so ripe that it is now “palpable”.
9:57 AM [crndog10] so, no later than feb 7. right?
9:57 AM [caddieman] Enorrste he also said there would be no uneployment by the end of the year..................whoops!
9:57 AM [babysnake] but he has to have the ecc aprovel first?
9:58 AM [Enorrste] he qualified that, caddieman
9:58 AM [Enorrste] done Dec 7 baby
9:58 AM [jtl] But if he gave it over to Shabibi, he dosnt have the control now, right?
9:58 AM [Enorrste] That word means “so close you could touch it”.
9:58 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] how did he qualify the no un-employment
9:58 AM [Enorrste] Palpable
9:58 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] is eat it
9:58 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] taste it
9:58 AM [Enorrste] Stop for a moment please
9:59 AM [govets] He is not finished, can we please let him finish? thanks.
9:59 AM [beau777] Thats some good research Enorrste
9:59 AM [Enorrste] jtl, he gave the "appearance of control" to Shabbibi
9:59 AM [Enorrste] "transparency", right?
9:59 AM [jtl] oh
9:59 AM [Snickers77] to preserve his image
9:59 AM [Enorrste] Allineed, it's a 5 year plan, period
9:59 AM [Soldier] <<<<<<<
10:00 AM [Enorrste] “The RV is the key to Maliki’s re-election. It will occur in the immediate future and ensure that election. Obama has played a key role in making this happen as have the IMF and the UN, and because of that we can be assured that it will happen. It will happen before the election in order to make the election of Maliki assured.”
10:00 AM [crndog10] thanks for all the info
10:00 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] Enorrste i agree, that was stated after he could not accomplish it by year end 2009
10:00 AM [Kevin H.] ty
10:00 AM [sammiePJ] well i hope so
10:00 AM [babysnake] Enorrste that was great of you to post this for us an do the research. 1 question how high is your IQ wow ,an what is your job title.
10:00 AM [mac lightning] AND...if not......................???????
10:00 AM [Enorrste] Well folks, the sun is up and I have a lot to do today.
10:00 AM [allIneedisonemillionusd] agree thanks for your reasoning and research
10:00 AM [Nance] that was great! Thank you for laying it out the way you did
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